Cielo Drive

Across the valley from the former 10050 Cielo estate is the former estate of Rudolph Valentino. 

This spot affords a beautiful view of Cielo Drive

The Valentino house

We were joined by two lovely young ladies (Lyle & Rebecca on the left) who are film makers.

Their current project is Claire Vaye Watkins' "Battleborn." 

ColScott paints a picture of the scene we are about to experience at Cielo Dr.

On the right is Max Frost - a friend of the blog who is very knowledgeable about all things Manson. He drove our "Black Bus" - no left turn unstoned.

Awww.

In the center is the monstrosity of a building that now occupies 

the location of the Tate house as seen from the Valentino estate.

Miss Patty

 The base of Cielo Drive

Where Billy Garrettson stopped earlier the night of August 9, 1969

 Almost (but not quite) tresspassing!
Moments later a lady with an ugly rear-end chastised us.

My iPhone stuck over the gate...

 Liz at current Tate house gate

"Tex's pole"


UPDATE

As requested, this is the current house. 

It totally doesn't fit into the landscape. Hideous if you ask me...

 

 

A new foundation was being cleared while we were there for a fifth house on the hillside.

MANSON at the Silent Theatre

Not-coincidentally, the diner we haunt near our Hollywood condo 

has a Sassy Bottoms wall...

Jay Sebring's Salon just happens to be on the next block from The Silent Theatre.

The Billboard in a vintage case.

Like when we were kids...

The facade of this magnificently restored old theater.

The Boss Lizzard with Robert Hendrickson before the screening.

Thank you, Robert and Toby. We love you both!

Michael & Bobot420 from The Backporch Tapes joined us.

Mr. Hendrickson fields questions following the screening.

He was fascinating, informative and funny.

Anybody who has the chance to attend this week - don't miss out!

There was a great reception area behind the theater to meet with Robert after the show.

The garden out back is beautiful. Congrats to the owners/restorers of this historic venue!

Afterwards we enjoyed some ...er... "refreshment"  (knowwhatimeanverne?)

out back with readers who recognized us.

We had a few extra t-shirts that we gave to some of the attendees. BTW a big shout out and thank you to all who purchased the shirts. Proceeds went to a Panda rescue, as we have a friend of the blog who loves pandas! You know who you are!



Eviliz Tour 2013

The Journey Begins Now

Cast

ColScott......................... as Charlie

Matt............................ as Bobby

Mrs. Matt.................... as Kitty

Deb............................ as Brenda

Patty .............................. as Mother Mary

Eviliz...................................... as Squeaky

Max Frost................................... as Neal Cassady

Jiri..................................... as Brooks Poston

Filming by Robert Hendrickson

Stagehands: Rebecca and Lyle

Charles Manson explaining "ATWA"

The Death of Paul Bern as told by Kenneth Anger

Patty has a new bookcase and so she's been going to a lot of book sales to find cool stuff to fill it with. A recent acquisition is Hollywood Babylon, by Kenneth Anger.

In case you don't know who he is, he is an "avant garde" filmmaker who was friends with Bobby Beausoleil. Bobby was actually in one of Anger's early works and they were to collaborate on Lucifer Rising. Anger says Bobby stole footage from him after an argument, which kind of killed the relationship. Perhaps not so coincidentally, Anger also hung out with Anton LaVey back in the day.

Anywho, you have probably heard before that Jay Sebring's house was formerly occupied by Paul Bern and Jean Harlow, and that Sharon had some weird kind of premonition of her death while in that house.

All of these pieces come together in Anger's (in)famous 1975 book. He briefly mentions the Tate affair:

"The '69 Tate massacre was not Old Hollywood. What befell the red house on Cielo Drive resembled the devastation caused by a jet plane crash: the Bad Ship Lollipop piloted by Uncle Sugar."

OMFG! Uncle Sugar who drives the twinkie truck, or Uncle Sugar, brother to Mr. Brownstone and Dr. Feelgood's? Patty is not sure, but she digresses.

Anger's description and photos of the death of Paul Bern are more detailed, including the text of his supposed suicide note:

"Dearest Dear, Unfortunately this is the only way to make good the frightful wrong I have done you, and to wipe out my abject humiliation. I Love you. Paul"

There are some interesting photos, too: the Bern/Harlow wedding, Bern as he was found, and Bern's body being removed from the scene. Click to enlarge. Morbid? Uh, yeah. But even grizzled, war weary Patty got sick when she saw the photo of Jayne Mansfield's dead chihuahua. That was a bit too much for her admittedly off kilter tastes. So, definitely check this one out if you can find it, but don't flip to the end. You've been warned.

Dr. Smith gets a spanking

A rebuttal to Dr. David Smith's observations of Charles Manson and others in the Family made by Dr. Murray Korngold as published in the San Francisco underground newspaper Good Times, February 26, 1970/ Vol. III No. 9.

Dr. Smith's article was published in the Berkeley Barb Vol. 10 No. 2 Issue 231. Jan. 16-22, 1970

MANSON EXAMINING THE EVIDENCE

Murray Korngold, PH.D.
Diplomate in Clinical Psychology
American Board of Professional Psychology

About a month ago, the Berkeley Barb interviewed Dr. David Smith of the Haight-Ashbury Medical Clinic on the subject of Charles Manson and his commune.  Excerpts from the interview were extensively reprinted in the LA Free Press where I first encountered it. At the time I found the interview and its wholesale publication deeply disturbing.  The interview was ostensibly prompted by an article scheduled to appear, this spring, in the Journal of Psychedelic Drugs on the group marriage commune.

In the course of the interview, Dr. Smith spoke as if he tacitly accepted the presumption of guilt of murder, a presumption which was and is shared by the establishment press and media.  Now, whether or not Manson is guilty of the crime of murder as charged (and I for one happen to think he is not) it still remains to be proved that he is guilty.  What we do know for sure is that Manson is being lynched by being flagrantly denied his right to a fair trial in an atmosphere which is rigged, corrupt, brutal and unjust.  A few observations to support this:

1) At the preliminary hearing to decide whether a grand jury should indict Manson and others, Manson wasn't allowed to be present to confront his accusers and cross-examine them.  He had that right according to law.

2) The "evidence" was a confession by Susan Atkins which actually sounds a bit deranged.  According to a recent expose in the LA Free Press, this confession was colluded in for profit by Susan Atkins, her two attorneys, someone from the district attorney's office and a public relations man named Schiller (one of whose previous is a book whitewashing the Warren Commission's report on the murder of President John F. Kennedy).  In a television interview Schiller is alleged to have acknowledged that the sum of $150.000 had already been paid, received and divided up.

3)There are indications that Manson is being deprived of his rights to a fair trial because of prejudice on the part of the presiding judge, Judge Keene.  Judge Keene at the time of Manson's arrest was in charge of the master calendar for the assignment of cases to the various divisions.  He assigned the case, himself, to Division 7, which he knew to be his own court.  It is rumored that his reason for assigning the Manson case to himself is his intension to run for the office of district attorney, when the incumbent D.A. vacates the office in order to run for state attorney general.  Recently, Judge Keene also presided at a bar association banquet at which another member of the district attorney's office prepared and presented a parody of the Manson case based on the presumption of Manson's guilt.   Judge Keene has refused to allow Manson to free access to counsel although the state statute doesn't clearly forbid such counsel.  Manson hasn't been allowed to have a transcript of the proceedings thus far and despite the pre-trial publicity which has already tried and convicted Manson, Judge Keene has refused Manson's request for a change of venue.

4) The refusal to grant bail on the grounds that this is a capital case may also be a refusal based on prejudice.  The justification for such a refusal is suppose to be that in a capital case, namely, one in which there is the possibility of a death penalty, the appearance of the accused at the trial may best be insured by withholding bail.  A few years ago in Southern California, Jack Kirschke was tried for the murder of his wife and her lover.  At the time of the alleged murder Kirschke was an assistant district attorney and was therefore granted bail.  Because of this he had adequate opportunity to prepare his case for trial.  The defendant in that case was convicted and sent to prison.  Manson, who is not respectable because he has done time, is being denied bail and being virtually denied an opportunity to prepare his case.  It should be clear, incidentally, that the detaining of the accused is not intended to be punitive.  It is meant to insure the appearance of the accused at his trial.  Yet Manson is being punished with solitary confinement for refusal to eat one meal.  His visitors are being photographed and intimidated. His phone calls are severely restricted as are all his contacts with any persons who are helpful to him.

5)  There are no vigorous efforts being made by the court to restrain the prejudiced and hysterical pre-trial publicity which is whipping up a public frenzy of hate and fear not only against Manson but also against communes and longhairs in general.  Despite the fact that the United States, unlike many other countries, has no formal procedures for protecting  the rights of accused persons against pre-trial publicity, one needs only to reflect for a moment to recall numerous cases involving wealthy and prestigious public figures accused of capital crimes.  In those instances, the media exercise a little more prudence and restraint-- and even in the most sensational cases where the temptation to try the case in a public kangaroo court is irresistible, convicting is usually left to the courts.

And even in the courts, offhand, I cannot recall nor do I know anyone who can recall any wealthy defendant ever put to death for the crime of murder.  Be that as it may, just let the accused be poor, or black, or radical or someone with unconventional sexual attitudes in any capital case and the media together with the courts land on him ferociously.  Most of the people who read this paper surely know what it is like for anyone not in the establishment to fall into the hands of the police and the courts, for any reason.

One would expect a professional associated with the youth culture to know this.  So, what is one to think of the following quotes from Dr. Smith's interview:

"...unfortunately a very large number large number of guys like Charlie are running around.  They seem to be attracted to hip subculture with its freedom and acceptance.  Fortunately not many of them are a persuasive as Charlie and they don't end up in a position of power..."

"...the problem was that Charlie was disturbed.  He developed a paranoid delusional system that led to violence.  It wasn't a drug thing.  When we studied them there was no violence but there is a fairly fine line between mysticism and schizophrenia..."

"Any individual who has an all-encompassing delusional system that has all the answers is very persuasive to the adolescent who is searching for a substitute father figure..." etc., etc., etc.

In short, at the time that the establishment media were drawing a damning portrait of a sinister and hypnotic caster-of-spells-over-innocent-and-helpless girls, who drove them to murder and depravity, Dr. smith was doing the same, but in psychiatric jargon.

Despite Dr. Smith's friendly comments about communes and the "hip subculture" in the course of the same interview, his comments as a whole are authoritatively damaging to those who are disenfranchised and oppressed, because in my opinion, Dr. Smith thinks and talks and acts from an establishment point of view. Liberal.  Philanthropic.  Yes, but decidedly a man who is most comfortable inside the status quo.

It wouldn't surprise me if someone were to be violently disturbed after spending practically his entire existence between the ages of 10 and 32 inside a steel cage.   The only kind of man who could take such a tone towards a total victim of this country's violence would , in my view, be someone who had himself been comfortably free from the establishments violence and who is, in addition, seriously lacking in imagination.

There is another matter that everyone thinks about and no one ever talks about publicly and plainly and that is the intense feeling of sexual envy and sexual panic generated by Manson's relations to women.  I have the impression that this strong feeling of threat and envy cuts across all lines, hip as well as establishment.  The history of Manson's commune is one of extraordinary harassment and hated by the outside world.  I don't know whether Manson was involved in the crime attributed to him, although to this psychological observer, it seems inconsistent with what I know of him, but I do know that he must be an unusually naïve person.  Until the age of 32 he asserts that he has never been with a woman. 

Well, he certainly seems to have been making up for lost time kin a very open, unconcealed and together way.  To live and travel openly with such a band of devoted sexual partners has just got to generate such a cloud of malevolence, that it was only a matter of time before lightening struck him.  It may very well turn out that the only violence in the Manson case is the violence directed against him and his friends and, through him against us.  But however it turns out, those who purport to speak in the name of "hip subculture" (whatever that may be) should be mindful of their responsibilities to protect and not to damage the right to equality before the law.  That is the very least that should be required from a friend, even if he is liberal.  but most important of all, no spokesman should be trusted unless he says what people are really doing to each other, without taking refuge in psychiatric jargon which only covers up the violence practiced against the poor, the black, the young, the aged and all those eccentric unrespectables so easily classified in the diagnostic categories of conventional psychiatry.



Dr. David Smith on the Family in the Berkeley Barb

Berkeley Barb Vol. 10 No. 2 Issue 231. Jan. 16-22, 1970 Page 3

LIFE WITH MANSON

Charles Manson and his "family" were in the Haight half a year after the Death of Hippie.

They left in the Spring of 1968 and moved south close to the scene of the murders with which they are charged.

A Haight clinic researcher, Alan Rose, followed them.

Rose lived for four months with the Manson family on the "Spahn Movie Ranch," where they spent a year operating a riding stable-- and doing various other things-- after leaving the Haight.

In an exclusive interview with Dr. David E. Smith, founder of the Haight Ashbury Free Clinic, BARB got some insights into the personality of the accused slayers of actress Sharon Tate and four others.

Dr. Smith told BARB Charlie and other members of the "Manson family"-- mostly young girls-- came to the clinic in April and May 1968 for "general medical things, not drug related problems or psychiatric counseling."

RARE DATA

But the rare "group marriage" sexual scene the Manson family was into attracted the clinical interest of Dr. Smith and Rose, then administrator of the clinic.

They were concerned with the health problems that crop up in different types of communal living, and the Manson family was one of the few they'd run across the practiced all-out sexual communism.

From that study and their experiences at the Clinic, came a scholarly paper on the group marriage commune to be published this spring in the Journal of Psychedelic Drugs.

WARNING

And coming as a by-product of their study is a warning to people who dig taking other people's trips: your friendly local guru just might be an incredibly persuasive schizophrenic with destructive paranoid delusions, and not a mystic at all.

BARB interviewed Dr. Smith Wednesday night for clarification of certain points brought out in the study report-- circulated in typescript-- and received permission to use some of the information it contains prior to its publication.

"He, (Charlie) was an extroverted, persuasive individual and served as an absolute ruler of this group marriage commune.  What he approved was approved by the rest of the group.  What he disapproved was forbidden," the report says.

NO BOOKS

The commune at this time consisted of about 20 core members, 14 of them women, plus several visiting "cousins."  Three had some college education, one even had a masters degree, but education was "indoctrination" to Manson, and one of his chief tasks was to undo the "brainwashing" society had done on his mainly middle-class charges.

Manson "felt that getting rid of sexual inhibitions would free people from most of their other inhibitions and problems," the report said.  "Most of the group had refuted the financial and material possession orientation of their families with relative ease.  The 'sexual orientation' was not that easy."

INITIATION

The researcher reported how Manson went about the process of reorientation:  (Charlie) set himself up as "initiator of new females" into the commune.  He would spend most of their first day making love to them, as he wanted to see if they were just on a "sex trip", or whether they were seriously interested in joining the family.

He would spend a great deal of time talking with them finding out, as he put it, "where their heads were at."  An unwillingness, for example, to engage in mutual oral-genital contact was cause for immediate expulsion, for he felt that this was one of the most important indications as to whether or not the girl would be willing to give up her sexual inhibitions.

DISCIPLINE

The study touches on methods of disciplining family members and prospects who did not shape up.  These included refusal to have sex with anyone who was not changing fast enough, and as a sterner measure, a "long talk" technique.

"This form would involve two or three partners in the commune approaching the individual in question and asking "Why are you here? What do you want from us? If we asked you to hitchhike to New York and stay there for awhile, would you do it?

"If the answer to the last question was yes, and the individual still did not go, he would usually be asked to leave and stay away until he went through sufficient "changes."

THE REJECTS

People usually left "involuntarily" at the insistence of the family..."

Those that stayed found the struggle for food-- which they termed an "adventure"-- to be one of the main preoccupations of the daily round.  They would rummage through grocery store garbage bins during food forays to town.

Other than that, bread came in the form of contributions from new members or gifts of money, food, and clothing from more affluent "cousins."

The group stayed in condemned ranch buildings in return for managing the stable of riding horses, the ranch's sole source of income.

KID CULT

The group wasn't into eastern religion or drugs, but the simple daily round of work, lovemaking, casual dope-sacramental use of smoking, and scrounging tied in with Manson's thing about children, the report indicated. There were several kids on the commune.

"The child was always the center of attraction and went everywhere the group did.  The child was viewed as the one to emulate and follow as he was considered untainted by society.

(Manson) used the words of Jesus: "he who is like the small child shall reap rewards of heaven,' to  guide their family and child rearing philosophy," the report stated.

INTERVIEW

Primarily concerned with health issues, the report did not devote extensive attention to the other problems raised by this and similar communal arrangements.  So BARB sought and received a few additional insights from Dr. Smith.

Dr. Smith said, "The problem was that Charlie was disturbed.  He developed a paranoid delusional system that led to violence, it wasn't a drug thing.

"When we studied them there was no violence, but there is a fairly fine line between mysticism and schizophrenia.  Every commune we studied that has survived has had a spiritual leader that has nothing but positive visions this wouldn't happen.

GOD'S WORD

"Charlie had a lot of good things about him, he said a lot of mystical things that appealed to the girls, but he also had a lot of serious problems in the area of paranoid delusions, and everything he said was God's word to the girls.

"If you totally accept someone you lose your ability to discriminate between the good things and the bad things.  If you know schizophrenics, you know how persuasive they can get, and if you are an adolescent in turmoil who is searching for a guru, you can be easily convinced."

Dr. Smith continued:  "This is one of the things that worries us at the clinic.  People can't surrender all individual control to higher authority, they still have to be able to think for themselves."

WHAT'S REALISM?

"...I think there are certain things anyone should be aware of. like what kind of grasp on reality the leader has, how he apprehends reality, but the girls always say 'What is reality'"

"What Charlie did, the main thing, was the sex thing and the infant consciousness.  They put a tremendous emphasis on that, saying the ideal is the infant.  What they are really saying is any socialization is bad and the individual should reject it.

"Then what he did was substitute his own philosophy.

CRUCIAL TEST

"The crucial thing to look for is how in touch with reality the leader is, and, secondly, whether his vision runs counter to what you intuitively know is destructive.  If people would think in terms of what is constructive and what is destructive behavior, not what is conventional or not...

"So many groups don't develop an individual ethic, just a group ethic, and they aren't much better off than if they stuck with the straight society they are rejecting.  They just go from one group ethic to another group ethic...

HIP MAGNET

"Unfortunately, a very large number of guys like Charlie are running around.  They seem to be attracted to the hip subculture with its freedom and acceptance.  Fortunately, not many of them are as persuasive as Charlie, and they don't end up in positions of power...

"There are a lot of people like that, and many of them are in mental hospitals.  Any individual who has an all-encompassing delusional system that has all the answers is very persuasive to an adolescent who is searching for a substitute father figure."

BARB asked if the girls in Manson's family were any different in any way.

GIRL PROBLEM

"No, that's the dangerous thing, there are hundreds of thousands of adolescent girls in turmoil that are looking for answers, and if they get hooked up with a guy like that, they are in trouble.  They must analyze their behavior to determine what is constructive and what is destructive.  I'm concerned with the great deal of group conformity that exists in the hip movement," said the 30-year old doctor.  "It's suppose to be the antithesis of conformity."

"I think communes can be a very positive and meaningful way of life but only if the participants in the movement think for themselves," he concluded.





Badass Interview: Jim Van Bebber on THE MANSON FAMILY

Published March 22, 2013 by Robert Saucedo on badassdigest.com

The story behind Jim Van Bebber’s The Manson Family is a pretty fascinating one. Van Bebber, an Ohio filmmaker, spent over a decade sporadically filming the movie – a low-budget, often hallucinatory look at Charles Manson and the cult he amassed during his heyday. Filming whenever he could, Van Bebber would work until he ran out of money, screen a rough cut of the film at festivals to raise more money and then go back to work. The process began somewhere around 1988 but it wasn't until 2003 that the finished film – pushed over the financial finish line thanks to David Gregory and Carl Daft – was released.

The result is a gonzo journey through fact and fiction – an acid-trip look at Manson’s influence nestled in a gleefully gory bookend about a TV journalist attempting to finish a documentary about Manson’s followers. During the decades it took to create the movie, Van Bebber, who wrote, directed, starred and self-financed the film, created a sometimes dense, often morally reprehensible and only occasionally restrained movie that really is like few other films of its kind. The Manson Family is muck-encased, blood-caked modern exploitation that transcends its financial limitations to become something really fascinating – equally for its content and for its origin.

Over the last ten years, Van Bebber has slipped into the fringes of horror – working hard for the last several years to finance his follow-up picture, Gator Green. Along the way, Van Bebber has built up his own cult of personality – acquiring rumors, whispers and legends along the way. Now, on the tenth anniversary of The Manson Family, Van Bebber is ready to step back into the spotlight in a big way. A successful Kickstarter campaign helped finance a short film version of Gator Green in the hopes that it might raise interest in the final film. In addition, The Manson Family is on the eve of a theatrical rerelease tour (including a stop at the Alamo Drafthouse Cinema – Vintage Park on Friday, March 29 and Saturday, March 30) courtesy of Severin Films. A new high-definition transfer of the film will follow when Severin Films releases a Blu-ray this April.

The below interview was done over the phone and – to put it bluntly – I’m not completely sure what was going on. Right away, Van Bebber seemed to have adopted a character, occasionally slipping into a British accent and more often than not providing a rambling, incoherent answer that ended in a desire to fight me. I'm assuming this was all for a bit of fun (I've not been able to locate any proof that Van Bebber has joined The Troggs, for example). Either way, Van Bebber has shown he still has the ability to be just as interesting and entertaining as the films he makes. If you're looking for an insightful look into the making of The Manson Family, I apologize. The good news is that the upcoming Blu-ray will include the full, uncut documentary The Van Bebber Family - a chronicle of the film's production. If you're looking for an interview that ends with the subject demanding an apology and hanging up - you, my friend, are in luck!

If you are in any of the cities the film will be playing (full line-up here), you should definitely check out the movie on the big screen. Many of the screenings will be in 35mm and include an advanced look at the short film version of Gator Green. In any case, make a point to check out The Manson Family if you have an opportunity. I can't guarantee you'll love it but - hey, a lot of parents don't love their kids, and they still spend time with them.

It's been ten years since your movie was released in its completed form. How does it feel to be about to see the film rereleased theatrically and released on Blu-ray for the first time? I imagine it’s an exciting time for you.

This is as exciting as Glenda Jackson’s nipples.

Okay, then. In the last ten years, have you noticed that The Manson Family has changed your approach to being a filmmaker?

It has made everything … purple.
Purple?

I do believe that’s what I said.

Well, other than that - do you feel you've changed as a filmmaker since this film has been released?

I have grown more accustomed to beer drinkers.

Did you say beer drinkers?

That’s what I said. What’s wrong with you, lad? You've got shit in your ears? Do you need a good tommyknocking from the Brighton Blackie Boys?

Can you talk a little bit about the lengthy production that you went through to get THE MANSON FAMILY made?

The lengthy production. Is that what you said?

That is what I said.

I just believe that, you know, no man can get hair on his balls until he’s grown.

Well, let me ask you this – do you see any current figures in today’s society that have the same charismatic influence that Charles Manson did?

No, no. No, it’s all bullshit. That’s a bunch of flying poppy. Nun. Sally Fields or whatever. Flying nun. Am I now the Flying Nun? Is that what you’re trying to say to me? I am the Flying Nun? So I’m no better, in your spit world, than Sally Field flying through a fucking poppy cock then a bunch of blue sky.

I’m going take that as a no.

That would be a no.

Over the last ten years, have you seen life reflect art - have you had any correspondence with Charles Manson or his followers due to making this movie?

No, I have no desire to talk to those shits.

It's pretty amazing that the film is both getting a theatrical release in 35mm and being rereleased on Blu-ray. Is it good to see this movie find new life in both the original film format and also a new high-definition digital format?

I find it amusing at best. You've got to understand… I would rather… Do you want to fight?

Do I want to fight?

Do you want to fight? Do. You. Want. To. Fight. Me? Are you asking me for a fight?

Maybe. Are you going to be in Houston anytime soon?

No, I mean you! Do you want to fight?

Upon consideration, I’d prefer not to.

OK then. OK. Alright.

Have you had a chance to take a look at the upcoming Blu-ray and its transfer?

What is a Blu-ray?

The new high definition transfer of your film.

Really? I… Do you want to fight?

I’ll pass this time.

OK, maybe next time?

Yeah, maybe next time.

You’ll have the score of the Blackie Boys behind you, right?

Yeah, definitely.

OK, well then. I eat Britain rock. I eat Britain rock for breakfast.

How does that digest? Do you find British rock is a little rough coming out the other end?

Um, I don’t worry about the other end, per se. I take in my intake, good man.

I imagine Britain Rock is high in fiber.

Well, it charms the soul.

So, congratulations on getting the short film version of Gator Green successfully Kickstarted. When can fans expect more news about the film?

There’s no more news. (long diabolical laughter) Bother! Ba-ba-ba. I want to be a rock and roller.

So, there’s no more news –

(Unintelligible shouting) Why are you making me look like a wook head? You’re making me look like a gardener. I want to be an old Ted. I want to be a rock and roller.

Your background as a cult filmmaker should go a long way towards making that transition to being a rock and roller.

I’ve just recorded a new song with my favorite rock and roll group.

Elton John?

No! The Troggs. Troggs! Troggs! Troggs, you fat bastard! The Troggs. “Wild Thing.”

So, when is that going to get released?

This summer.

Any plans to tour with the band?

Perhaps, perhaps. Actually, at the Housecore Horror Film Festival, I believe it’s in October, I will be singing “Wild Thing” with my band The Troggs.

Congratulations on this new career.

I hope that you have a new career.

At this point, so do I.

I have to ask about the Kickstarter campaign. What’s the deal with Evil Dead Trap 2.

Excuse me - what did you just say?

In the Kickstarter campaign for Gator Green, you included many contributor bonus levels that awarded people copies of Evil Dead Trap 2. What made you decide to include this particular film? I didn't immediately recognize the connection between the film and your work – did you just happen to have a bunch of extra copies of the film lying around?

I am not a distributor so that is totally the wrong question for this person. I have no control over Evil Dead Trap 2! I have no idea. I have never even seen the film.

I understand that the promotional short film for Gator Green is going to be included with the theatrical re-release of The Manson Family. What can fans expect from the short film?

They can expect what I deliver – which is violence and sex and animosity and loathing in great degrees. That’s what they can expect.

But no feature film is happening, right? Just a tour with The Troggs?

Troggs! Troggs! Troggs, you French bastard. You frog!

So, besides your musical career, what’s next for you?

The next thing I’m going to produce is a very personal production of mine. It’s a totally naked musical version of The Music Man. And we’re all buck naked.

(At this point, Van Bebber breaks out in an unintelligible  off key rendition of what I assume was meant to be a song from the musical).

Just buck naked of course. And, you know, flaming bush right in your face.

And will this be for an audience of your cats or will you take this on the road?

Oh, no. I’m putting it on film, dude.

Do you still shoot with film or have you moved on to digital?

I never go digital.

I’ve read past interviews where you advise young filmmakers to always shoot film. Does your advice still hold?

No, no, no. It does not apply. It does not apply. If you’re going to make a film, make a film. As did the ancestor I came from – Herbert von Boom Boom Tree - said. That’s the lineage that I respect. I do best to counter the configuration of northern America. I eat Brighton Rock for breakfast.

Well, I want to thank you for your time and I’ll let you get back to the copious mushroom tripping I seemed to have interrupted. Good luck with the re-release of the film on Blu-ray and during its theatrical re-release.

Would you like to correct your last statement? Would you like to correct that?

Which statement?

The randy statement about mushrooms and what have you? Can we correct that?

Sure. So, I’ll assume that you are not currently high?

No, say you’re sorry for saying that. Before I get violent.

Sure, I apologize for insinuating you may not have been totally coherent for this interview.

You apologize! Yes, you do. You do! OK. That’s enough. I’m done with you.

Sharon and Roman Wedding Video

 

This is a very cool little clip of Sharon and Roman departing the Chelsea Registry Office after being married and the reception at the Playboy Club Park Lane.

LaBianca house November 2012

Thanks to JohnnyAngel for the pics

--------------------------------------------

5/13/13

Updated with pics from Sun King:

Le Pig Studio Presents.....

The following song was recorded at 10050 Cielo Drive in 1992. Actually, the whole album this song is from was recorded there in Trent Reznor's home studio named "Le Pig." The album, of course, is "The Downward Spiral." The song is "Gave Up." Notice Marilyn Manson pretending to play the guitar in the video. In MM's book (The Long Hard Road Out Of Hell) he wrote about staying with Trent Reznor at 10050 Cielo Drive, and filming this particular video. MM stated he wasn't really playing the guitar. He also stated that him, and Trent Reznor picked up some skanks one night, brought them up to the house, and chased them around the yard in the same area where the murder victims were chased to their deaths. Sick!

Trent Reznor went on to state in an interview that when he rented the house, he had no idea that it was the same house where Sharon Tate & the others were butchered. Uh, ok. He must really think people are idiots.

The Motive

                                          The Motive

"Good and evil, reward and punishment, are the only motives to a rational creature: these are the spur and reins whereby all mankind are set on work, and guided"

                        - John Locke

We all have our own personal theory on the true motive for TLB. I used to think  the truth could be traced to relationships forged in the Laurel Canyon scene where Stars, Musicians, and common hippies were all mingling together over dope and music. Over the years I have become surer that some of them must have met in this place and time, but less sure it means anything in the big picture as far as motive for the crimes. Here are some other peoples opinions on what the motive was and was not....

"Helter-skelter was the motive for the murders. Manson borrowed that term from a Beatles song on the White Album. In England, helter-skelter is a playground ride. To Manson, helter-skelter meant a war between whites and blacks that the Beatles were in favor of. When the album first came out, in December of '68, he got a copy, and he came racing back to the ranch all excited and said, "The Beatles are telling it like it is! The s___ is coming down!" It was this war that he felt he could ignite by killing white people and blaming black militants, this war called helter-skelter."

               Vincent Bugliosi  - Interview with Time Magazine, August 2009                



"So how did the Prosecutor, Vincent Bugliosi, make the mistake of concluding that Helter Skelter , a black/white race war that would bring on Armageddon, was the motive for the murders of the LaBiancas and those at 10050 Cielo Drive? The most obvious reason is that Mr. Bugliosi didn’t look at the events that led up to these murders in chronological order. If you don’t study what happened in the order it happened how can you ever understand why one occurrence followed another?

  It wasn’t until the trial started that Vincent Bugliosi finally found out about the suspected murder of Bernard Crowe. This suspected murder would have an incredible effect on the actions of Charles Manson, but by the time Vincent Bugliosi discovered it he was already selling Helter Skelter to a jury.

It’s worth looking at the incident that followed – the Crowe Incident – a little closer, because it is the true beginning of the terrible panicked spiral that led to the deaths of nine innocent people."

         

                      Susan Atkins-  excerpts from " The Myth of Helter Skelter"

"There were three basic motives behind the murders that took place sometime past midnight on August 9. The most obvious was the one Charlie had articulated to us that afternoon: to do what blackie didn't have the energy or the smarts to do-ignite Helter Skelter and bring in Charlie's kingdom. There was also the need for more cash, first of all to finance our preparations for Armageddon-the same thing that had motivated the drug burn and Bernard Crowe's supposed murder, the killing of Gary Hinman, and all the proposed abductions and murders in the Chatsworth area-and also to pay $600 bail for Mary Brunner, who had been arrested earlier that day for using a stolen Sears' credit card. If she had not been in custody, Mary would most likely have been the one sent with us that night, instead of Linda, since Mary had the other valid driver's license in the Family and had already proven herself at Gary Hinman's. Beyond getting money and bringing down Helter Skelter, there was a third, less important purpose: to clear Bobby Beausoleil of the Hinman slaying by committing a similar crime while he was in jail."

       

                      Tex Watson- "Will you Die for Me?"

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: Talking about the people that you've harmed, there was a greater goal in what you were -- what the Family was trying to accomplish at that time was this idea of a racial war?

INMATE VAN HOUTEN: Yes.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: And you apparently had bought into that?

INMATE VAN HOUTEN: Yes.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: Was -- you know, in addition to the nature of the murders themselves, have you thought about how you were able to, coming from this, again, this fairly normal background, to be able to buy into that kind of potential violence?

INMATE VAN HOUTEN: Yes, I've thought about it a lot, because at the time I didn't even think of it in terms of being racist. He -- it was presented as a eventual outcome, and I thought how dangerous it is to not pay very close attention to what people say. It was particularly painful for me because my sister and brother are Amerasian, and I had to live with that, with them too, and make my amends.

PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: Commissioner, any questions?

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No.

      

                        Leslie Van Houten- 2007 Parole Hearing transcript

“So, when Beausoleil come to me with, could I be a brother? I told him certainly, you know. So we were like in a little brotherhood together, like we didn't lie to each other. And whatever he said do, I would do. And whatever I said do, he would do.  But as far as lining up someone for some kind of helter skelter trip, you know, that's the District Attorney's motive. That's the only thing he could find for a motive to throw up on top of all that confusion he had. There was no such thing in my mind as helter skelter. Helter skelter was a song and it was a nightclub - we opened up a little after-hours nightclub to make some money and play some music and do some dancing and singing and play some stuff to make some money for dune buggies to go out in the desert. And we called the club Helter Skelter. It was a helter skelter club because we would be there and when the cops would come, we'd all melt into other dimensions because it wasn't licensed to be anything in particular. And that was kind of like a speakeasy back in the moonshine days behind the movie set.”
                         
                       Charles Manson- 1992 Parole Hearing Transcript


“First of all you are misinformed, as is everyone misinformed, about the so called “family.”  There was no organization called “The Family”.  The Family was a term given by the media to an amorphous group of people, some of whom went to prison in 1969. We lived on a ranch in the Santa Susana Mountains called Spahn ranch, and later we lived in Death Valley. We didn’t call ourselves anything, but we made a lot of music and somebody said, “Well what do you call your group?” And somebody said “Well were the family Jams.” So over a period of time, because the media usually needs to put a label on situations, we got the name “The Family”.  But there were literally hundreds of people who came and went. Later on, you might say, there was a core of people who were very close together and stayed true to the thought that we had for stopping the war in Vietnam, and for protecting our air, our water, our trees, and our animals. We were so committed to those causes that the murders more or less evolved out of our desire to change the system.”
       
                          Sandra Good-  Radio interview 1990 W. G.R. Buffalo NY


“Manson has been proclaimed by many to be insane. The question of whether or not he is insane is a question of opinion, which cannot have a “true” right answer. However, his beliefs, which fueled his and his family’s actions between 1968 and 1975 conflicted with society’s morals, around which this country revolves."
" He also believed that he was Satan, to come to Earth and start Helter-Skelter, what he called a prophetical Armageddon.”

" Helter Skelter, revenge were part of his beliefs. Humans had corrupted the Earth and ATWA, and were ignorant about it. Manson had felt that society dumped him and he felt great rage for society, and people, and later found an anthem for his rage. When asked about his actions, many years after the murders, he had said that he is a part of everyone, that he mirrors people, because they shaped him. The Beatles’ “White Album” included songs (Helter Skelter, Revolution #9, Piggies, and others) that Manson felt documented his rage toward society. When at the ranch, he and the family listened to these songs many times over. Manson thought he had heard his name being said in one of the songs. Their thoughts about Helter Skelter, or the Armageddon, were brought out by these songs. In Revolution #9, he heard machine gun fire, the oinking of pigs, and a man saying, “rise.”

"His beliefs would later incite Helter Skelter, using his family as a type of “army.” Some people believe that he just brutalized people, that the murders were for no cause, and he was just insane. Yet, more than twenty-five years after he and his family were convicted, he still has the same beliefs and still can logically explain his actions."

“Manson’s murder case was the most extraordinary of the time period, especially taking into account the hippie era. However, the murders partially stemmed from the era as he had so many people under his control, believing every word, what he thought of turned into a reality. Oliver Stone compliments Manson when describing his interview with Geraldo Rivera, saying that Manson had the upper hand of the discussion the entire time. Intelligence is not one and the same with sanity, however, which might have explained Manson’s retaliation against society. It is of somebody’s opinion to decide whether or not they think Manson is insane. Yet, his mind and motives can explain why he acted how he did, and why society didn’t approve.”
        
         Excerpts from: The Mind and Motives of Charles Manson -An essay by Dylan Klebold     (Columbine High killer)

"So what I am trying to say here is that the Charles Manson murders that happened in 1969 were a phony "show trial" that was created to cover up the Robert Kennedy assassination that took place a year earlier in 1968. I know that is hard to believe "but true.".Earlier you found out that the DAs office in LA altered the "motive" in the Sirhan Sirhan assassination case. How much Bugliosi played a part in this we may never know but during the Tate LaBianca murder trial Bugliosi "definitely" altered the motive while he was chief prosecutor of the case. He hid the Mafia/CIA connections to the case and created a motive where "wild crazed hippies on LSD were killing people at random" Anybody that has ever studied this case can prove that these murders were anything but random. The LAPD right from the start concluded the these murders were high end drug deals gone wrong and they were right all along. This is the first time in our country that people have seen how our Intelligence community were heavily involved in the Tate LaBianca murders."

"I mean you don't have to tell me what happened. I lived in the area at the time and saw the whole thing happen with my own two eyes. When I was in high school there were actually Manson girls going to my school. The rumor on campus was that the Charles Manson murders were some sort of Government operation what was being blamed on Hippies. All of the evidence seems to show that this "rumor" was true."

                 -  Excerpts from- "I was there and saw the whole thing happen"- Mark Carter as posted on Lets Roll Community Forums.

" I call it the Manson trial because nobody talks about it being Charles Watson's massacre. That's the boy who killed seven people, but the news media associates the name Charles Manson [with the killings]. He made the picture on the cover of Life; He is the man that you associate with killing Sharon Tate. Many people don't even know the name Charles Watson, because you're not supposed to know it. Right now there's a hung jury in Los Angeles on the decision of whether Charles Watson is guilty of murdering seven people. He was in the home. He did the stabbing forty times. He wrote "death to the pigs" on the door. The jury can't decide if he was guilty. My conclusions are, number one: that all of these persons involved—the major people—are agent provaceteurs. They come at a time to increase violence, to come down on a segment of our society prior to an election year to make law and order necessary to protect us from the people at large in our society. Number two: Charles Manson was a patsy. He is identical, historically, to Lee Harvey Oswald, Sirhan Sirhan, and James Ray. Charles Manson killed nobody in the Sharon Tate home or in the La Bianca home. He was being charged with these murders and he didn't kill any one of those seven people. He was used. He was a person who had been in jail twenty-two of his thirty-two years of life. He was the product of our penal system. He was not a hippie or a part of the youth culture. They bought him a guitar, let his hair grow, put a leather jacket on him, gave him money, gave him a bus and credit cards, and told him to do his thing. It was like James Ray was a part of our penal system. He was in Missouri in jail, he met with certain persons, and the next day he was out and there was twenty, thirty thousand dollars of money spent. He traveled continents and everywhere. He was to be used at a certain time and place. Charles Manson was identical to James Ray, as a product of our penal system. He was used by the news media to slam down on the hippies. We could do one hour on the news control of how your brain is shaped to believe that Charles Manson made a robot out of a nice white Christian boy from Texas. Isn't this terrible? This kind of a criminal mind? He was used.

              -  Mae Brussell Talks about Charles Manson 1972 ( Whatsup- enjoy the journey.blogspot)

" The real motive was to get a brother, Bobby Beausoleil, out of jail by committing “copycat” murders that would convince the authorities that Beausoleil could not be guilty of the murder (of Gary Hinman) for which he had been arrested on August 6, 1969. This motive is much more realistic and has much more circumstantial support than the DA’s fantastic ‘helter skelter’ motive. It’s the real motive. There’s only one thing wrong with it from the prosecutorial point of view: It is not a personal motive for Charles Manson."

                          -  Manson ATWA(r) website


                 
              
                                     So Whats your opinion????